Meeting called to order 8:30 December 1st, 2003
Attendance:
111000000000000111110000 \
210987654433211221109998 / Month
000011112021121101022002 \
136814691740073628413996 / Day
aaaaaaaa-aaaaaaaaaaaa*aa Steven Sharp
aaapaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-a*aa Karen Pieper
-aa-a----a--aa-aa--a-$aa Cliff Cummings
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa=-a Shalom Bresticker
aa--a-aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa*aa Stefen Boyd
------a--aaaaaaaaaaaa*aa Dennis Marsa
aaaaaaa-aaaaa-aaa-aaa$aa James Markevitch
---aaaa-aa-a-aaaaaaa-=-a Gordon Vreugdenhil
----aaa--aaa-aa-aaaaa$aa Anders Nordstrom
-----------------aaa-$a- Ted Elkind
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-a*a- Brad Pierce
aaaaaaaa-aaaaa-aaaaaa*a- Charles Dawson
aaaaa-aa-a---aa-a-aa-$a- Mike McNamara
aaa--aa-aaaaaaaaaa---*aa Stu Sutherland
aaaa--a--------------*a- Tom Fitzpatrick
---------------------*aa Elliot Mednick
--a-a-------aa---------- Don Mills
---aaaa-----a----------- Jay Lawrence
a-aa-------a------------ Mehdi Mohtashemi
-a--aaaa--aa------------ Kurt Baty
------a----------------- David Smith
-aaaa-a----------------- Dennis Brophy
aaaaaa------------------ Francoise Martinolle
aaaa-------------------- Drew Lynch
--a--------------------- David Roberts
-a---------------------- Ennis Hawk
a----------------------- Ronald Goodstein (new member, a boston -->
--based consultant, his company
is 'First Shot Logic Simulaton, Inc.")
a----------------------- Keith Gover
a attended
p proxy
- absent
1) As the EFT chair, Karen Pieper was still driving in, she asked
that
Mac serve as acting chair of the meeting; Mac agreed, and there
was no
objection.
2) The acting chair read the IEEE patent policy description, also
directed everone's attention to
http://www.verilog.com/IEEEVerilog.html where a link to the IEEE
policy is prominent.
3) Stu sutherland moved and James Markevitch seconded the motion
to
approve the minutes of the previous meeting (11/03/2003); this
was
approved unanimously.
4) Mac agreed to put 1364c on web page password protected, and
send
out notice to the team
The group then considered the ETF proposals:
5) Issue 165 : Simplify the parameter declaration by grouping the
various types a parameter can have, and then using that type in
the
parameter declaration BNF.
Shalom moves, Brad Seconds, none opposed, none abstain; motion
passes
6) Issue 217: Add a description of the restriction that one can
only
override a parameter declared in a named block, task or function
with
a defparam, and then further give a method where a user can use a
module instance parameter override to effect the same thing, by
then
structurally assigning the value of the internal parameter to
hold the
value of the externally assignable parameter.
Shalom moves, Brads Seconds, none opposed, none abstain; motion
passes
unanimously
7) Issue 211: Clarify that instance parameter overrides skip over
localparameters, as was the intention.
Modified the proposal to change the sentences added to 12.2.3 to
read:
However, overriding a parameter, whether by a defparam
statement or
in a module instantiation statement, effectively replaces the
parameter definition with the new expression.
James moves, Shaloms seconds, none opposed, none abstain, motion
passes unaimously
8) Issue 237: no progress
9) Issue 325: Clarify the description of external hierarchical
access
to items declared in automatic tasks and functions.
Shalom moves, Stu seconds, none opposed, none abstain, motion
passes unaimously
10) Issue 380: Remove the restriction on declaring tasks and
functions
in a generate loop.
Shalom moves, Brad seconds, none opposed, none abstain, motion
passes unaimously
11) Issue 428: still needs work.
12) Issue 467: Propose to close issue with no change.
Shalom moves, Stu seconds, none opposed, none abstain, motion
passes unaimously
13) Issue 484: Propose to close issue with no change.
Brad moves, but there was no second.
Stu then proposes, Brad seconds amend the proposal to instead
delete
the sentence:
"A function definition shall include an assignment of the
function
result value to the internal variable that has the same name as
the
function name.", and remove the word 'six' from the previous
paragraph.
none opposed, none abstain, amended motion passes unaimously.
14) Issue 504: Simplification to BNF describing real and variable
declarations.
James proposes freindly amendment make replacement text
read
as follows:
real_type ::=
real_identifier { dimension }
| real_identifier = constant_expression
variable_type ::=
variable_identifier { dimension }
variable_identifier = constant_expression
Shalom moves, James seconds, none opposed, none abstain, amended
motion passes unaimously.
15) Isues 505: Make the BNF of task and fucntion declaration
consistant
with text.
Brad moves, Shalom seconds, none opposed, none abstain, motion
passes
unaimously.
16) Karen moves, Stu seconds, to have the next meeting of the ETF
January
12th, assuming VSG allows. None opposed, none abstain, motion
passes.
17) Karen moves, Stu sedonds, to cancel December 29th meeting of
ETF. None opposed, none abstain, motion passes.
18) Karen began discussion on what to do with the open
issues. Shalom
pointed out that some are owned, while others are unassigned.
Group began some discussion of various open issues.
General discussion ensued on issue 22 '@(*)', especially given
'(*'
and '*)' as tokens. Karen took a straw poll on consensus on what
to
do with this, and achieved no consensus.
General discussion ensued on issue 33, and Mac agreed to take
ownership of the proposal.
Open Action Items:
(7/14/03) 16: Shalom volunteered to drive. He needs to formulate
some
wording to improve what is there according to the
concensus.
Also, he wants to formulate a possible problem and get
some
reaction before he gets a formal proposal.
No progress.
(11/18/02) Gord and committee to return with a generate proposal
for 17, 113, 208, 255.
Gord sent an initial draft of a bunch of text. He has
received some feedback, and it will take some work to
incorporate it.
Shalom asked Gord and got a mail from him. He is too
busy to work on it right now. It will be 3 or 4 weeks
before he will have time to work on it. Steven will
try to find someone to write stuff up. Gord indicates
that this is out of the scope of his job.
(12/1/03) 22: There is no concensus to a fix, so we will leave
this issue alone until there is one.
(12/1/03) 33: Mike MacNamera to make a proposal.
(10/06/03) 73: Steven to update the proposal
Brad made a proposal.
(11/18/02) Steven and committee to return with an @* proposal for
issues 22, 82, 84
Group has agreement on some of the more contentious
issues.
(11/18/02) Evaluating TBD Errata. The tasks are:
Shalom
165 13.11.1, A.2.1.1 -- reuse task_port_type
170 formatting of bnf non-terminals
(11/4/02) Steven will proposing a wording to fix 172. It will be
a
significant rewrite.
No Progress.
(8/11/03) 175: Anders volunteered to drive
This issue also came up in the Accellera SV-BC committee.
We should form a group to drive all configurations issues
to a resolution. Cliff might be willing to drive this in
a few more meetings. We'll wait to start this until later.
Cliff would be ecstatic if someone else volunteered.
(11/18/02) Evaluating TBD Errata. The tasks are:
Charles
197 sscanf/"string" incompatibility
No progress.
(11/18/02) 198: Shalom Evaluating TBD Errata. The tasks are:
198 sinks should allow only constant part-selects
Shalom will make the smaller change to allow port
expressions to be what is allowed on the lhs of a
continuous assignment.
Shalom postponing this one because in section 12 talking
about port connections, it talks about what you can have
on the receiver side of a port connection (a structural
net expression). In section 5 it talks about how a port
connection is an implied continuous assignment. In
section 6 there is a description of the lhs of a
continuous
assignment; this is very limited. After recent updates,
the BNF for a net lvalue can also be an element of an
array of wires; this is reasonable for a continuous
assignment. For ports, the situation is more
complicated.
The structural net expression has not been expanded to
allow the BNF changes.
Steven recommends that it be a net lvalue.
Shalom is concerned that this is an enhancement. We took
a straw poll and no one wanted to deal with it as an
enhancement.
(7/14/03) 204: James volunteered to drive
He needs input on what the simulators do. There are some
complex issues here dealing with port collapsing and
inout.
That is covered by issue 54.
As to the exact issue in 204, how about adding examples
indicating that examples 2, 3, 4 are illegal? James will
do that.
He has not written this up yet. Shalom suggested that
this and 7 other errata be evalutated together. All of
the issues are Brad's (filed by him?) He does not want
to
drive. James will develop a proposal for all of them
including 204. 204, 227, 233, 234, 292, 332, 345, 452,
486(?).
(7/14/03) 227: Anders volunteered to drive
(7/14/03) 233: Anders volunteered to drive
(7/14/03) 234: Anders volunteered to drive
(2/10/03) Issue 237: SV-BC19-41, SV-BC19-42
Dave Roberts and Shalom to fix the proposal expanding the
BNF and creating language to support it.
No progress. Shalom has not heard from Dave Roberts.
(7/14/03) 245: Shalom volunteered to drive
(7/14/03) 247: Anders volunteered to drive
(10/06/03) 428: Brad will update the proposal based upon Shalom's
feedback.
(11/3/03) Shalom has the action to add an issue for the
situation where you need a hierarchical reference that
allows an array of scopes. This is a follow on from issue
209.
(11/3/03) Shalom will open an issue on parameters and signing
reflecting issues raised in 441.
Meeting adjourned at 10:30